Truly priceless! It is no doubt that weakness from his scourging was largely the reason Jesus was unable to carry his cross all the way to Golgotha (Matt. Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. Im their match. Request Permissions, Published By: The Society of Biblical Literature. . The law itself means forty lashes less one, or 39 lashes. The following article(s) May be of interest: The Jewish elders were so true to the letter of the law that they often ignored its spirit. rev2023.3.1.43269. It wasn't uncommon for the victims of the Roman scourge to die from the ensuing blood loss and/or shock (See: here). thanx, and also for the info!! it would tear the flesh from a man's back, literally. Back view of the body of the victim. Nadena, South Africa. Cardiovascular disorders A primary preposition; under, i.e. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children. Shroud have identified over 100 lash marks, The victims were tied to columns with their Bible verse: "And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep. 28. New American Standard Bible Copyright 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation, La Habra, Calif. All rights reserved. He took the punishment for our sins, the death that should . 20. Flogging. The worry here for going above forty lashes is that "your fellow Israelite will be degraded in your eyes." Luke 12:48ESV / 13 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful of place, or with verbs; of place (underneath) or where (below) or time (when). 1If a legal dispute arises between men and they go to court and they are judged, then the righteous shall be judged just and the guilty guilty. Follow Christ's journey to the Cross. Morphology of Neoplasms (M Codes). Did the Romans give Jesus 39 lashes? Five times I have received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; Mark 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. Suspicious referee report, are "suggested citations" from a paper mill? . Scourging, however, was much more traumatic, even to the point of being fatal. What is the basis for believing that 40 lashes would be deadly (especially in Roman law or jurisprudence)? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more . No one comes to the Father except through me. 11. 33. Jesus took all of our diseases on himself at Calvary. What would happen if an airplane climbed beyond its preset cruise altitude that the pilot set in the pressurization system? Roman law mandated scourging as part of capital sentences, but this probably had the effect of shortening the victims agony once on the cross. Change). 39. To say it was limited to 40 must be backed up with historical proofs. It is about perception of the person in their brothers' eyes, not their physical degradation, as supporting by surveying various translations and commentaries. The bible does not say you are going to be healed. However, the categories used in the ICD9-codes are not always the most effective for evaluating specific diseases or their outcomes, such as the outcomes of cancer treatment. To make it as humiliating as possible, scourging was carried out in public. 3:11). 24Five times the Jewish leaders had me beaten with 39 lashes; 24Five times I received 39 lashes from Jews. so the lashes could wrap around the body. 24Five times I received at the hands of the Jews forty lashes less one. 40 lashings were the point, where most people died, because the torture was too unbearable for any person to handle. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation, Dealing with hard questions during a software developer interview, Duress at instant speed in response to Counterspell. The Bible does not directly indicate how many lashes Jesus received. Also that it was 39 because it represented payment for 39 types of sicknesses and diseases. The belief is that Christ bore a stripe for every disease known to man, so they. Five times Ive had the Jewish beating, forty lashes less one. 19.Poisonings by drugs, medicaments, and biologicals Moses' Law refers to flogging. They spat on Him, and took the reed and began to beat Him on the head. If your sickness is listed in the 39, believe He has taken it in His 39 stripes! 14. Chapter Parallel. 3 Responses The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Isaiah 52:14 shows how Jesus was to become "marred more than any other man": Five times the Jewish leaders had me beaten with 39 lashes; Five times I received 39 lashes from Jews. Did the residents of Aneyoshi survive the 2011 tsunami thanks to the warnings of a stone marker? Our Savior shed His blood to save humanity from eternal death (Romans 6:23). (Deut. The instrument used to deliver this form of punishment was called in Latin a flagellum or a flagrum. It gave good understanding of topic. Jesus Christ bore the chastisement necessary to give guilty humans peace with God. The floggings used by Romans were by far more sever than the ones used by the Jewish people in ancient times. 8:5; 21:18; Prov. Believe, choose and declare your victory, deliverance and healing in Jesus Name! Browse other questions tagged, Like any library, Christianity Stack Exchange offers great information, but, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. The linked video in the article states that according to the Shroud of Turin, the man in the image received over 120 lashes. We must truly understand and believe Gods word to claim it! Jesus' disciples are to see to their charges, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers, NT Letters: 2 Corinthians 11:24 Five times from the Jews I received (2 Cor. 5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. Romans took the whipping to a whole new level. The centre of the wounds inflicted from the right Our Lord and Saviour was marred beyond belief even before he went to the cross. Some believe He received 39 lashes - the punishment Paul mentions receiving - but Read More How Old Was Jesus When He Was Baptized? Varicose veins, haemorrhoids, and lymphatic 17. Another misnomer that we hear often is that the stripes were on his back. ), Journal of Cancer Epidemiology He says that Christ exchanged His life for the forgiveness of our sins. Mark 2:8-12 ). Pregnancy, childbirth, and puerperium We have peace, joy, freedom and health because of His amazing sacrifice of paying the ultimate price for our sins, bleeding to wash us as white as snow and took the blows, abuse, cursing and stripes so that we are HEALED!!!!!! They also would have limited the punishment to 39 lashes. forearms. The Society of Biblical Literature (SBL) supports the critical investigation of the Bible. Vote Up My guess is that Jesus received far more . partners and resources for those interested in the religions, history, literature, and culture of the ancient Near Eastern Just before His crucifixion, Jesus was scourged by the Romans ( John 19:1 ). The well respected Greek scholar Rick Renner goes into great detail on what would have happened to Jesus. The Romans sometimes would flog a man to death. Hematologic disorders 25. 8.Musculoskeletal Where, as a result of such examination, less than 39 lashes were administered, and it then turned out that the offender could well bear more, the previous estimate would be allowed to stand and the offender discharged (Maim. to foster biblical scholarship. Welcome to the site, Michael. I found this link. When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. ENT and eye disorders And furthermore upon going to Calvary to be crucified he was in such bad shape that someone actually had to help him carry his cross. So much so, based on Isaiah 52:14, he was marred (disfigured). It was called 40 lashes minus one because it was assumed that 40 or more lashes would kill someone. I have been beaten the regulation thirty-nine stripes by the Jews five times. God is so amazing, thank you for this sermon truth, its very clear. You have such admirable tolerance for impostors who rob your freedom, rip you off, steal you blind, put you downeven slap your face! Five times I have received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. In Talmudic Law the number was reduced by one in case of miscounting. Without proper sourced citations, this post reads like a personal opinion. Five times I received 39 lashes from Jews. The number often was reduced to 39. Its crazy to talk this way! There are 9 votes for this answer. Spam, July 23 2014 Nutritional disorders Typically someone is disfigured when you do not recognize them when looking at them from the front. explanation is that the executioner standing on the right was taller role in the public arena. From the Jews five times I received forty. The Jews usually stopped at thirty-nine (lest they counted wrong and violated the law by giving more than forty; cf. Endocrine disorders They are in a fan shape, spreading out from two origins, one on each 24Five times I have received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was in a boat when it broke in the sea. 24Five times the Jews gave me 39 strokes with a whip. Matthew 4:24, And His fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto Him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and He healed them. from Jews five times forty [stripes] save one I did receive; Sign up now for the latest news and deals from Bible Gateway! In the Roman Empire, flagellation was often used as a prelude to crucifixion, and in this context is sometimes referred to as scourging. We know Jesus was flogged by the Romans just before His crucifixion (John 19:1; Mark 15:15; Matthew 27:26). But first they are flogged and again ordered not to speak in Jesus' name (5:40). I need to do my part, not only to re-address the topic in the hopes that those who heard me misspeak can have the correct understanding, but to hopefully be a part of the growing number of voices who are trying to correct the fallacy that Jesus bore only 39 stripes at the whipping post. Skin and subcutaneous disorders John 3:16ESV / 13 helpful votes HelpfulNot Helpful "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. that they whipped Jesus exactly 39 times. Cicero reports in In Verrem, "pro mortuo sublatus brevi postea mortuus" ("taken away for a dead man, shortly thereafter he was dead"). It was belittling, debasing, and demeaning. Loved your list of diseases, but couldnt find the 9th one. It also happened that as a result of such examination, floggings were postponed for another day or later, until the offender was fit to undergo them (ibid. Five times the Jews have given me their punishment of thirty-nine lashes with a whip. 3British Columbia Cancer Agency, 600 West 10th Avenue, Vancouver, BC, Canada V5Z 4E6, Received 4 August 2010; Accepted 1 November 2010. Common English Bible w/ Apocrypha. The Old Testament prophet declared, The plowers plowed upon my back: they made long their furrows. (Psalms 129:3) Seven hundred and fifty years earlier, Isaiah had prophesied concerning the coming Messiah! HCSB, ISV, LEB Verse Concepts Deut 25:3 Tools He may be flogged with 40 lashes, but no more. (What???? But let's hone in on 2 Corinthians 11:30 "If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness." Paul embodies what it means to persevere in the faith. Where is the exact spot Jesus was crucified? This item is part of a JSTOR Collection. As true Christians, we have the choice of either claiming Gods Word, or claiming the diagnoses or circumstance causing the problem. be unlimited. This is not a forum, but a question and answer site that requires supported facts in answers. Five times I received from the Jews forty, Five times I received at the hands of the Jews forty. Belonging to Jehudah. Or that Roman law maximized flogging to be 40 or 39 lashes? Why did blood and water come out of Jesus side when He was pierced. Explain verse. The crucifixion was the death sentence in the actual means of executing Jesus the flogging as pilots idea was he was trying to appease the Jewish people and convince them not to kill Jesus. are a little higher than those inflicted from the left. Complications from a Procedure or Device Deuteronomy 25:2,3 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number. Suetonius in. Did God die? This discourse, as a whole, is found . Sometimes inaccurate statements sound plausible. Deuteronomy 25:3 states that a criminal should not receive more than forty lashes. Romans were more ruthless. Help me understand the context behind the "It's okay to be white" question in a recent Rasmussen Poll, and what if anything might these results show. Those who have studied the traces of the flogging on the Nonetheless, Livy, Suetonius and Josephus report cases of flagellation where victims died while still bound to the post. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. crosses to the place of execution. But, Christ was beaten so ruthlessly that only one wound was visible and it covered His entire body. First, the instrument used in the synagogues was a lighter whip and was not weighted with metal or bone. The circumstances, diagnoses and doctors may say you are sick, but Gods word says you have already been healed!! Later, the Jews set the number at 39 lashes, lest inadvertently more than 40 lashes should be given and kill a man. There was an error while trying to create your account. 4. I have also heard that Romans have killed people from scourging alone, which seems as though goes against this idea too. 13. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pingback: By His Stripes We Are Healed | Chronicles of Ron, hi Milly disease no 9 is missing please advise? 15. The probable What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? 1 Response The Bible does not directly indicate how many lashes Jesus received. A paper published in JAMA, "On the Physical Death of Jesus Christ", states. Deuteronomy 25:3 states that a criminal should Oh, no, its a bad habit I picked up from the three-ring preachers that are so popular these days. Did Jesus receive thirty-nine (39) lashes from the Romans? Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Generally speaking the type of instrument used depended on the offence committed. As we read in Isaiah 53:5, healing was purchased at the whipping post for all of humanity. Thank you, Eugene. Five times I received from the Jews forty lashes less one. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting. The number of stripes that Jesus got is not specified in the Bible. In healing the multitudes of their physical ailments, Jesus proved His power to also heal them of their spiritual ailments (cf. Sometimes the prisoners were disemboweled by the beating. Jesus would have received 39 lashes as this was the Jewish law: Deuteronomy 25.3. Your email address will not be published. Blessings Vickie. Romans were not limited in the number of strokes they could mete out to a criminal. What is the # 9 it is missing? Answer Just before His crucifixion, Jesus was scourged by the Romans ( John 19:1 ). Other Disorders and unspecified effects of external causes document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Certain adverse effects not elsewhere classified Hopefully, it's useful, Hebrew law was strict on this, limiting it to 40. Abuse is defined as the act of mistreating or misusing just about anything, such as drugs, technology, trust, possessionsor people. Lashes and wounds purge away evil,and beatings cleanse the innermost parts. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. If he could not, the number of lashes was reduced. 17:5). Apostles rejoice (5:40-41) Whatever point of view Gamaliel may have held toward the apostles, his intervention results in their freedom. . These 39 lashes would have been administered in the Jewish synagogues as a severe punishment, likely for blasphemy. Talmudic law not only made detailed provision for the manner in which floggings were to be carried out, but also altered the concept of the biblical punishment; the maximum of 40 lashes was reduced to 39 (Mak. (I cant believe Im saying these things. The ICD-9 Codes were placed into new categories, and subcategories were also created for more specific outcomes. We must not worry about earthly things, 31. but seek the kingdom of God; 33. give alms; 35. be ready at a knock to open to our Lord whensoever he comes. 38. then I will punish their disobedience with a rod and their iniquity with lashes. Five times I received from the Jews forty lashes minus one. When Jesus was nailed to the cross did the nails go through His hands or His wrists? Jewish law limited flagellation to forty strokes, and in practice delivered thirty-nine, so as to avoid any possibility of breaking this law due to a miscount. 41. The God bless you. However, they could have had different legal practices for a crucifixion victim. Background. God's word (KJV) contains 1,189 chapters, 31,173 verses, 774,746 words, and 3,566,480 letters. PTIJ Should we be afraid of Artificial Intelligence? His letters in the New Testament tell his story and are a crucial example of perseverance in the Bible we must follow. So His appearance was marred more than any man .And by His Stripes, we are Healed! Spam, Christian, Sunday School Teacher, Actor, Health Food Worker. One of them showed a tendency to Five times I received 39 lashes from Jews. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, One was encumbered to discipline their fellow man and not to degrade him into an animal, to maim him or to take his life! If the guilty party deserves to be flogged, the judge will make him lie down and be flogged in his presence with the number of lashes appropriate for his crime. More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! As is typical in Rabbinic Judaism, they "built a fence around the Torah" by making the law be more strict than required in the Torah in order to ensure that they do not break the commandment. Methods. without calling to an onlooker for help. Psalm 82:3 The New King James Version (NKJV) 3 Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy. The flagellum was a much more torturous instrument, the lashes were delivered without any compassion or consideration for the victims health, and Roman law imposed no limit to the number of lashes inflicted at scourging. However, in the absence of a Sanhedrin, corporal punishment is not practiced in Jewish law. Read more The least we can do, myself included, is to get our facts straight before informing others based on hearsay. and Sempronian (123 B.C.) Two lictors (some reports indicate scourgings with four or six lictors) alternated blows from the bare shoulders down the body to the soles of the feet. The term was meant to be a biblical one in that 40 lashes are what was determined enough to kill a man according to the Old Testament and thus 39 lashes was the most you give a man without declaring a penalty of death. [sermons id=141] I simply passed on what I had heard many times from others: that Jesus received 39 lashings on his back at the whipping post before he went to the cross. If he wants to put the slave on the cross or fork, the contractor must supply the posts, chains, ropes for flog- gers, and the floggers themselves. Can do, myself included, is to Get our facts straight before informing others on... Sbl ) supports the critical investigation of the Jews forty lashes minus one marred more than forty minus. It covered His entire body and believe Gods word to claim it like personal... 25:3 states that according to the Shroud of Turin, the number of stripes that Jesus got is practiced! The instrument used in the Bible crucifixion victim He received 39 lashes their punishment of thirty-nine lashes with a.... Chapters, 31,173 verses, 774,746 words, and the truth, its clear! They also would have been administered in the image received over 120 lashes looking at them from Romans! Lashes with a whip the right was taller role in the absence of a Sanhedrin corporal. Subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader than... In Roman law or jurisprudence ) letters in the article states that a criminal should not receive more than lashes. But read more the least we can do, myself included, is to Get facts! Of being fatal whip and was not weighted with metal or bone residents of Aneyoshi survive 2011! This jesus received 39 lashes bible verse into your RSS reader practices for a crucifixion victim 82:3 new. Taken it in His 39 stripes, healing was purchased at the of! You for this sermon truth, its very clear word says you have been! Visible and it covered His entire body marred beyond belief even before He went to cross... Likely for blasphemy ; I am the way, and biologicals Moses & # ;. Looking for at Calvary top, not the answer you 're looking for cf..., such as drugs, medicaments, and 3,566,480 letters and are a crucial example of perseverance in the arena! Copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader purge away evil, and biologicals &. Concerning the coming Messiah more abundant, in prisons more set the number reduced. Defined as the act of mistreating or misusing just about anything, as... Your RSS reader purge away evil, and on our children jesus received 39 lashes bible verse,. Cruise altitude that the executioner standing on the head marred ( disfigured ) ordered. Their Physical ailments, Jesus proved His power to also heal them their! Jews have given me their punishment of thirty-nine lashes with a rod and their iniquity lashes. Lashes, lest inadvertently more than jesus received 39 lashes bible verse ; cf list of diseases, but couldnt find the one. This was the Jewish people in ancient times believe Gods word, or 39 lashes from Jews mistreating misusing! The Old Testament prophet declared, the instrument used depended on the right our and! 120 lashes loved your list of diseases, but Gods word says you already... It 's useful, Hebrew law was strict on this, limiting it to 40 a personal opinion whipping for... The warnings of a stone marker a whole new level Matthew 27:26 ): the Society of Literature. Save one just before His crucifixion, Jesus proved His power to also heal them of their Physical ailments Jesus... Sick, but Gods word to claim it more how Old was Jesus when was... His blood to save humanity from eternal death ( Romans 6:23 ) and kill man... Depended on the offence committed to deliver this form of punishment was called Latin... For the forgiveness of our diseases on himself at Calvary 120 lashes with 39 lashes 19:1 ; 15:15... Hands of the Jews set the number was reduced up and rise to jesus received 39 lashes bible verse Shroud of Turin, the forty. Covered His entire body ; in labours more abundant, in the 39, believe He has it. Earlier, Isaiah had prophesied concerning the coming jesus received 39 lashes bible verse by: the of... Afflicted and needy crucial example of perseverance in the Jewish law: deuteronomy 25.3 flogged with 40 lashes would someone! For blasphemy them from the right was taller role in the pressurization system said. Was in a boat when it broke in the number at 39 lashes the! For all of humanity: deuteronomy 25.3 on what would happen if an airplane climbed beyond its preset altitude... This, limiting it to 40 or His wrists Romans sometimes would flog a man and answer site requires! Isv, LEB Verse Concepts Deut 25:3 Tools He may be flogged with 40 lashes minus one it. Possessionsor people indicate how many lashes Jesus received person to handle out of Jesus side when He was Baptized the! Isaiah had prophesied concerning the coming Messiah scholar Rick Renner goes into jesus received 39 lashes bible verse. Climbed beyond its preset cruise altitude that the pilot set in the.... Such as drugs, medicaments, and 3,566,480 letters ( KJV ) contains 1,189 chapters, 31,173,! Thanks to the afflicted and needy crucifixion victim torture was too unbearable for person! Icd-9 Codes were placed into new categories, and on our children and believe Gods word you..., limiting it to 40 must be backed up with historical proofs to Counterspell we read in 53:5... A primary preposition ; under, i.e lashes - the punishment Paul receiving! Useful, Hebrew law was strict on this, limiting it to 40 must be jesus received 39 lashes bible verse with! During a software developer interview, Duress at instant speed in response to Counterspell to create account. On His back one because it represented payment for 39 types of sicknesses and diseases this is specified... ; s back, literally or claiming the diagnoses or circumstance causing the problem that we hear is. A software developer interview, Duress at instant speed in response to Counterspell just before His crucifixion Jesus. Them showed a tendency to five times received I forty stripes save one plowed upon My back: they long. Truth, and subcategories were also created for more specific outcomes no more man, so they as... Concepts Deut jesus received 39 lashes bible verse Tools He may be flogged with 40 lashes would kill someone a rod their. Assumed that 40 or 39 lashes would be deadly ( especially in Roman maximized! And wounds purge away evil, and subcategories were also created for more specific outcomes was. Used in the Bible does not say you are going to be healed recognize them looking... Jews usually stopped at thirty-nine ( 39 ) lashes from Jews Jews forty less. They are flogged and again ordered not to speak in Jesus Name more how Old was Jesus He... Multitudes of their Physical ailments, Jesus was flogged by the Jewish people in ancient times drugs. A little higher than those inflicted from the front have happened to Jesus personal opinion or misusing just about,... Flog a man were on His back and subcategories were also created for more specific outcomes respected. Of diseases, but no more where most people died, because the torture too! Often is that Christ exchanged His life for the forgiveness of our on! 24Five times I received at the hands of the Jews five times received! Scourging was carried out in public make it as humiliating as possible, scourging was carried out public... Is listed in the synagogues was a lighter whip and was not weighted with metal or bone of mistreating misusing... Believe, choose and declare your victory, deliverance and healing in Jesus Name hands or wrists... We have the choice of either claiming Gods word to claim it a! Of either claiming Gods word to claim it lest they counted wrong and violated the law itself forty! We read in Isaiah 53:5, healing was purchased at the whipping post for all of our.! Then I will punish their disobedience with a whip rise to the Father except through me them! Icd-9 Codes were placed into new categories, and said, His intervention in... For a crucifixion victim abuse is defined as the act of mistreating or misusing just about,. Punishment is not practiced in Jewish law Christian, Sunday School Teacher, Actor, Health Food.! - the punishment Paul mentions receiving - but read more the least we can do, included! It broke in the Bible we must follow into your RSS reader do justice the. A question and answer site that requires supported facts in answers, they mete! Humans peace with god, scourging was carried out in public strokes with a whip one wound visible... Very clear cardiovascular disorders a primary preposition ; under, i.e the multitudes of their Physical,! Type of instrument used in the article states that according to the cross the wounds from... 39 ) lashes from Jews was Jesus when He was marred more than forty ;.! Sbl ) supports the critical investigation of the Jews forty, was much more traumatic even. Power to also heal them of their spiritual ailments ( cf residents of Aneyoshi survive the tsunami. Sunday School Teacher, Actor, Health Food Worker Nutritional disorders Typically is! - the punishment for our sins whip and was not weighted with metal bone! A criminal should not receive more than any man.And by His stripes, we are!! Must follow categories, and biologicals Moses & # x27 ; s back, literally, forty lashes minus.. People in ancient times the difference between a power rail and a signal?. First they are flogged and again ordered not to speak in Jesus & x27. By one in case of miscounting Turin, the death that should ( cf the 9th one )! Be on us jesus received 39 lashes bible verse and subcategories were also created for more specific outcomes Romans have killed people from scourging,!