That is stunning. If any Pastor asked me to have a private, evening chat about leadership I would have looked like a leaf trembling in the wind. I believe the world is far more interested in Christians who know they are sinners and deal with it as opposed to Christians who are actively trying to keep the sin thing on the down low. free. No, the flesh made them do it! I wonder if her crisis of faith was after finding out about something shady Bill was doing? Bills own admission appears to have been made at a meeting with certain Elders and Willow Creek Association Board members. Note how often those being accused are the old dogs, gone or soon to be gone from the public eye anyway. It all led me to focus on several things with the kids:. I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. You would think that wannabe preacher boys would be warned off of that in seminary. A hint here, a casual comment there, Twenty Chess Moves in Advance. Ever thought of switching to WordPress? They need to do some reading. As for the hug thing, & why didnt Nancy Ortberg say somethingwell, for a year or two now, my Christian neighbour, who Ive been friends with him & his wife for about 25 years, has been giving me lingering hugs, which end up with his hands resting on my lower back as often as he can when he drops into my house, hes made a few inappropriate comments about my breasts (they are a standing joke amongst me & my friends as Im a buxom lass), often tries to rub my shoulders as he knows I have shoulder issues& youre the first people Ive told. I also took 3 years of Biblical Hebrew and 4.5 years of Koine Greek thats NT greek. I can assure her that never once was I assaulted, harassed etc. Note: Nancy Ortberg served as a teaching pastor for eight years at Willow Creek Community Church. I hope so. Don calls men who abuse their female intimate partners skilled offenders. Whatever it is, its wrong-headed. What BH did is reprehensible. One more narcissistic, egotistical, Out of control, self-serving man in a position of trust has been stopped in his tracts. Home; NEWS; Actress; . My working hypothesis is that any man intent on seduction of women through grooming them for emotional intimacy and/or sexual involvement will sow in whatever field hes in and will also create or develop the platform that makes it possible to keep the flow of victims going. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. And, are most people blowing this thing up bigger than it is. They wouldnt have been good enough speakers. Willow Creek Community Church initially started as a high school ministry but grew over time to become one of the biggest Churches in the United . At what point will Heather Lawson realize that Willow Creek needs to over? . Willow Creek / Bill Hybels had IT powered by the Ambien Operating System. Same outrage. I will leave you to your study. Ive told her about the many intelligent comments here! Bill has been married to Lynn Hybels since 1974. I would not attend a church where I knew the pastor behaved like that. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. I would add that based upon reactions of his followers here, it becomes more obvious why. I think the safest place for interaction is in public. Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. He is politically liberal, decrying sexism, racism, and the fear of people who are different, and is a vocal critic of Donald Trump. What happened to people? My assessment is that the entire leadership there at Willow Creek needs to be held accountable and the base must face this issue with appropriate consequences. Then more examples came out. that their chief goal is to get their sexual needs met without negotiation. You have been wanting to run the ad and move on. In your view, discussing Hybels behavior is worse than his behavior. My bad for not being back in touch with you. I know this sounds harsh but its notbecause I am guilty, too. But on the wider scope, I asked the folks a work today if they knew what was happening at Willow Creek. psychology today says that When we hug or kiss a loved one, oxytocin levels increase; hence, oxytocin is often called the love hormone.. And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. Taught many lies in the churches even to the point where we unknowingly give homage to the devil. After all, there were so many good things that had been done and so many accolades given. AT BEST its the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. If someone thinks so, tell me how. If he did nothing wrong, he wouldnt have done it unless you really buy *he did this to save the church* meme. What I count is as follows: When one person has an experience like this with a trusted friend and spiritual leader, they typically dont know how to make sense of it. Shameful! I believe her account. Ok. No!! Are you saying that letter posted was well written? Think about it. Walking away from an institution is not the same as walking away from faith in Christ. Dear TWW readers, I am in Australia so I comment and tweet and post things on FB when you are asleep if you are in the USA. Add a spiritual plastic Jesus fish to the scenario above and its 10x easier to manipulate. And Jesus does not need Willow Creek. I agree. Because human beings are still sinful and the combination of money, power, influence and sex remains toxic, systems which largely ape the culture . Hybels has barely spoken anything about his married life and rarely has appeared in the media with his wife. This is a well worn story, insert Pastor name here, insert church name here. Ok whats wrong with this picture?? The Spirit works, sometimes over decades, with friends and acquaintances. Bars Hennessey series is excellent. Maybe hes just old. And, no, it does not minimize their words concerning what Bill Hybels has done. Read reviews from world's largest community for readers. Some sources say that they dated for five years, broke up, got engaged then broke their engagement and later got back together and finally got married. Example, why did you agree in front of everyone to stay after everyone they all left,you idiot. In April 2018, when Bill Hybels' scandal got out, John Ortberg turned on his former master . And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. Or, for instance, a pastor may be forever fishing to see what his parishioners know as to the latest church scandal, etc., without the trusting individuals ever even know this is taking place. This is about strange behavior which was tolerated because one guy knew how to build a church and bring in money. analytical thinking. Sam Powell and Jeff Crippen who are a pastor who *get it* about abuse. Exactly. Thats a laugh. (ed deleted link). Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. He got GAWD on his side The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. I felt something was amiss with the email story when I first heard about it. @ okrapod: Your comment covers a lot of ground I am all too familiar with. (In a related relevant situation, wasnt it the tech department that noticed irregularities with messaging from Tullian Tchividjian to women that directly led to the disclosure of his misconduct?). At what point did Nancy inform her husband? Im particularly disgusted by They said they could look him in the eye and discern if he was telling the truth.. You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brothers eye. You want to know the lack of leadership moment that really stood out to me in Hybels own words? Hybels is a man and he serves at the pleasure of the real King. I tell you, when someone like BH is exposed, people come out of the woodworks to defend their celebrity hero and attempt to discredit the victims. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? Terrible, terrible thing. If you think about it, that was a planned get out of jail card planted around a few places quite expertly. Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. We are all sinners and we all fail. We would often rent out suites in hotels when there were medical conferences/ conventions going on. Then the man of God acts as if nothing happened.. But at church with people you see week after week? Wherever my story takes me, however dark and difficult the theme, there is always some hope and redemption, not because readers like happy endings, but because I am an optimist at heart. why is she running alone with a man she supposedly feels uncomfortable around? Christ told a number of parables that indicated that numbers, or quantitative evaluations of performance was much less important than heart attitude. Dee, I dont think he deserved that. When the founding big cheeses are gone (sorta) the factions start forming. This is exactly what you would expect from some Neo-pharisee trying to hide his sin from the world. Assuming TWW readers have spent some time absorbing background and details about Bill Hybels and the evidence from the women who came forward with accusations, what do you see as possible points and patterns with that case study, compared with those of Joss Whedon and Lawrence Krauss? Some will walk away all together from their faith journey.. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart. 20 Where is the one who is wise? Paint her as crazy, vindictive, or loose. I highly recommend it, as well as his book, I dont understand the focus by this and other commenters on when did she tell her husband, When I got to his room, Bill had wine opened and waiting. Who wants to stir that pot over something potentially ambiguous? As we passed through the line I asked him if he would like a hug and he said he would. Where is the debater of this age? @ Bridget: A less intimidating way to do that is a diary of sorts. If this very not such a serious matter, their would be some humor in this. Weve seen all kinds of abuses from ministry leaders and time always reveals the truth. 30 seconds, if it was really that long, is a very long time for a hug. She even volunteered in church (choir, Sunday School) and married an aspiring preacher! By . Its a very reasonable step for Mr Hybels publishers to at least suspend his books until a more independent investigation has been completed. Honestly, there is a lot of gossip here and on other social media about all this. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. The task is to not establish and maintain environments where such people can abuse without danger of being held accountable. It is when people naively do not realize that everyone has an agenda, not to be cynical, that they fail to ask important questions and perform essential (to them!) I do. By your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned Jesus Matthew 12:37. The lead elder talks about a duty to protect the church and cites Acts 20:28 which allows her to indirectly call the betrayed wolves and enemies of the church. Because you put so much trust and admire a leader like Hybels, your first instinct is to dismiss anything off about them. They are in denial. Lydia, not sure if that is sarcasm or? As Im reading the comments, its becoming evident that theres something horribly wrong with Willow Creek church. Jesus was a grand act to follow, and the disciples did it right. Ah, the broad-brush accusation of slamming the Church when actions of their leadership are called into question. And people are actually saying Hybels being a champion of women was under false pretenses, for Sex? I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Or is this site simply about wholesale condemnation. Please join me in praying for WCC, the victims, and the leaders. Forgiveness after repentance is one thing (and a rare thing if someone never actually admits to anything beyond a mistakes in judgment were made public spin). This was shortly after a truly awful Christianese Youth Group rap number (GANGSTAAAAAA!!!! One thing Im certain of, Bill Hybels would NEVER have hired men like Paul or Peter to be teaching pastors at Willow. Got any other people of substance who would vouch for you? In the last few months as this media storm has rained down confusion and . Once again, power is used to disrespect and mistreat others thereby inflicting invisible but very real, very painful wounds. Thats how this tends to work. Very often, as you point out, in times of crisis, people respond in ways that reveal. But if true it is still not honorable behavior. My bad for not being back in touch with you. WC is Hybels no matter how much they protest. We are most certainly called to make judgements on actions. Now the manipulation continues as the abused who have raised their voices are abused yet again. So, if we are all prone to sin, how can anyone come to the faith according to your paradigm? Maybe they could get Lee Strobel back to write another book The Case for Bill. As we got up to leave at the end of the evening Bill said to me in front of the group, Nancy why dont you stay for a couple of minutes for us to discuss your ministry work? I immediately looked at the others for how I should respond and one of them smiled and said, Okay, see you in the morning.. First-run movies, gym memberships, bowling alleys, rock-climbing, restaurant franchises, lotsa merch & swag, all for a simple swipe or tap of your card (or phone app) charging each and every tap/swipe to your student loan? Our job is to call. His wife had died rapidly of inflammatory breast cancer and we were at the funeral home for visitation. Working our works out of view, This is Uncharted Territory for them. At this same meeting, Bill was asked about his special arrangement with I.T., where his emails are permanently deleted on a frequent and regular basis. Why would a woman follow the same God that her husband says excuses adultery? Ever. Some people, educated people, decent people, never talked. Its what someone mentioned in another thread about 75% of people go along with whatever to be accepted. We can only judge actions. Some will sadly never make the decision to follow Christ. Betrayal, trust, etc. Nancys story is not outrageous to me. It took a long time for her to get past that. 1 Peter 4:8 Its about truth, loving others, the actual fruits of the Spirit, obedience to the Lord. @ truthseeker00: It is the private hotel rooms that can be dangerous. Make an Example of one, and a hundred will fall right into line, bleating praises. I teach fraud for a living, you see, developed my universitys curriculum on it and am at this very moment in negotiation with a publisher to develop a textbook on it. If we removed the words and reasoning from the picture, it could be seen precisely as that but not when we see the object and the need for the action. The Spirit does the work: both in the calling and in the conversion. And Long Prayers will be said for justification. @ Forrest: My pray time this morning brought me directly to this passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42. Lynne Hybelsis the wife of Bill Hybels-renowned founder and senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church in Illinois, This year in 2018, Billhas been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynnefounded, In the last few months as this media storm has rained down confusion and grief on those at the I was joking about the dog. What nonsense. Read Paul on Mars hill. I think they all have the same m.o. Hybels led many. predatory, calculated and manipulative all with a facade of kindness and mentoring. One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. (none of them did it in a bothersome way, I just wasnt used to it). I find it a it off putting that anyone would keep a list of *how many have you led to Christ. Now, you should go back and read about victims and try to learn why this open letter hurts real victims. Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Tysvm Dee. Not the courtroom. "He told me what he thought about how I looked, very specifically, what he thought about my leadership gifts, my strengths," she told the Tribune. Control, self-serving man in a bothersome way, i just wasnt to... 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